Wikinvest Wire

Monday, August 27, 2007

Can He Be Right?

Jeremy Grantham is quoted in this Marketwatch article saying the S&P 500 could lose 40% between late 2008 and the end of 2010.

We may all be as mad as this guy if he is correct.

It certainly seems reasonable that we could at least have to endure a normal bear market at some point between now and then but cutting in half, or coming close to it, twice in a decade is pretty far outside the fat tail.

However any scenario is possible and it makes sense to have at least a rough idea of what you would do if Grantham turns out to be correct.

A move of 40% over a period of 18 months or more (the time period implied in his statement) is sort of a slow decline. The kind of decline that many people will tell us not to worry about as we go. To frame this in the way I write about it (and think about it too) is that on the way to the down a lot he calls for is the the down a little that happens every now and then.

Any time the market goes down a little it could be on its way to down a lot. This does not happen very often but slow declines that result in down a lot hit down a little first. In this context sticking to whatever get-defensive strategy you believe in becomes of paramount importance.

An important point to remember is that if the market does actually go down 40% and you do a great job in protecting against most of it, you will still endure a decline of some magnitude--again, if you navigate this scenario fantastically well. Most of us, if we are lucky, will be down a lot but hopefully less than 40%. A 25-30% decline in a down 40% world would be a colossal success in my opinion.

That may not sound great to you but the average 10% annual gain includes all of the worst bear markets in history. Adding ten percentage points of outperformance in a one or two year period would be huge to your long term result.

I would suspect that in a slower decline, that is one without panic, diversification would work, that correlation would not go up between investments where it is usually low. In this environment I would want to own foreign currency and bonds, different sorts of countries (commodity based, surplus or in their own world), cash and big cap defensive stocks all come to mind as places to overweight. I would also hope that I had positioned the double short fund well going into this to neutralize some of that decline.

I have no idea if Grantham will be right and there is really not much need to correctly predict something like that either. Any time the market goes down a little (not the market condition to fear) it could devolve into down a lot (this is the thing to worry about). You can't know when it will happen so don't sweat being right, just stay disciplined and and hope to miss a chunk of it.

The picture is of Adam Arkin playing his recurring character of Adam in my all time favorite TV show; Northern Exposure.

9 comments:

Anonymous said...

No, he's wrong. He's too bullish.

Bill B said...

Well, this article is dated Aug 12th when everyone was in full panic mode ... wonder what they're saying today. :)

To me, this is no better than someone predicting the weather for 2010 or next year's hurricane season (and they were WAY off this year and last). People can't even tell you what the next tick on the Dow is going to be with any certainty (but they can all tell you WHY it was so, [cough]) so why trust or even waste time with any sort of prediction type article? The broken clock is right twice a day and regardless of what anyone "predicts", folks need to be in a position to sleep should the broken clock strike midnight and the party's over.

Bottom line, if you're not in a risk free asset, you need to have a plan to manage your risk. Whether it's options, cash, shorts, have a plan and don't let these predictors cloud your plan.

Just me 2 cents. :)

Stephen Drone said...

Hey, it's Grantham.

OTOH, thanks for giving me something cheerful to consider today! Dang.

In theory, of course, I should just stay the course. Human nature pushes me to do otherwise.

charlie at the lake said...

In 1973 a friend of mine was buying his first house. I suggested that we were about to enter a recession and perhaps he should re-think his decision. He replied that he thought people would continue to live in houses throughout the recession.

Anonymous said...

we just had the biggest bull market for houses anyone has ever seen. sort of like the biggest bull market we ever saw for the nasdaq.

well it has been 7 years and I just do not see the nasdaq getting back to 5000 anytime soon.

I am not saying housing will take as long to recover as the nasdaq, but since it was the biggest rally in housing ever and we are now seeing the first declines in housing prices since the great depression, you should not expect housing to get well for a number of years.

On the bright side it should bottom in 1 to 2 years. I just think it will stay at the lows for quite some time.

T said...

Just another wannabee "Elaine Garzarelli" who learned in the stock market comment business that if one throws a large piece of financial crap against a wall and it happens to stick, the public will forget about all the feces that litter the ground in front of the wannabee wall.

Roger Nusbaum said...

Garzarelli? Wow, that brings back memories, what a hoot.

I don't know if the comparison stands up but that really is a funny flashback, man.

Josh Stern said...

Some big economically meaningful stuff would have to change for the market to be down 40%. So I can't say what I would be doing without knowing what that stuff is. If stocks were just going down for the heck of it, I'd be holding/buying until I was 100% long, but definitely in plays that were robust to the economic and stock market cycle.

tom k said...

First, I don't believe in predictions.

As far as a 40% decline, one should always be ready for one - they're not as unusual as you might think. According to the tables in the link below we had 6 declines over 38% in the past century. Given the life expectancy of an average American you could expect to live through 5 or 6 such bears during a lifetime.

http://www.globalfindata.com/articles/bull_and_bear_markets.doc

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