Wikinvest Wire

Monday, August 10, 2009

Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey


Motivating today's post is a speech by James Montier about efficient market hypothesis that John Mauldin posted on Barry Ritholtz' site and to a lesser extent some comments left by a reader on Sunday's post. The Montier piece is worth reading but roll up your sleeves and have good cup of mud before you get started it will take a while.

You probably know the joke about the two economists walking down the street and find a $10 bill on the ground and the one economist says the $10 isn't really there, someone would have picked it up by now. The idea being that the market correctly prices in all known information. The thing is, occasionally there is a $10 bill on the ground and someone has to be the first one to find it.

One idea I've tried to convey here is that no approach or method of investing can always be the single best way. Every so often a generally successful strategy will appear to not work very well for a while. With efficient market hypothesis (EMH) this can mean that the collective consciousness that takes stocks up to some highwater mark can turn out to have been incorrect due to things like incorrect expectations, an external shock or something else. Also EMH relies on known information so the market can quickly come to know something new that is important enough to cause a dramatic repricing.

I've never been one to rely on EMH. In past posts I probably said something like the market tends to price in what it knows but occasionally gets things wrong.

The Montier piece gets into all sorts of different pricing models, how people try to apply logic and reason to markets and so on. I've never been a big fan of these because I believe it tends to bog down the process to the point of making it much more complicated than it needs to be, makes it easy to lose the forest for the trees with no guarantee of a better result. It seems to me that people who do bog down in this stuff tend to miss the big macro events.

Too much attention to rules at the expense of the big picture can lead to less diversification and poorer results (risk adjusted or otherwise). The fact is that very expensive stocks can do fantastically well as can inexpensive value stocks. Often the economic or cyclical backdrop plays a role as to whether now is the time for very expensive or very inexpensive to do better. It would follow that exposure to both would mean you would always have exposure to what was doing better.

Another example that draws some strong opinion, at times it makes sense to sell strength and at other times sell weakness. In May, 2007 Citigroup (C) was trading in the $50s. Coinciding with the peak in October, 2007 Citi went into free fall dropping from $47 down to $30 on November 26. Anyone selling on that day at $30 would have seen it go back up to $35 by December 11 but given what happened could we really say a sale on weakness at $30 was bad?

In May 2008 I put up a post about selling some of our position in Statoil (STO) because it had rocketed so far so fast. I sold strength. The sale itself was quite lucky but reducing exposure to something that goes up 48% in two months (as was the case with STO back then) is not the single stupidest thing you will ever do. Back to EMH, how can a stock go up that much in two months?

If nothing can always be the best then it makes sense to consider multiple tactics in the portfolio. This makes the most sense to me.

The reader comment in question says that buy and hold simply works the best but that people should have no more than 50% in equities. I am not a believer in broad proclamations about what other people should do.

He also goes on to say that you cannot expect advisors to outperform the market. I believe the reader has the wrong focus. People need to have enough money for when the time comes. That may or may not mean outperforming the market. If a 50 year old needs $25,000 a year to live on, has $1 million in the bank and is saving $20,000 per year how much do they need to beat the market by? Conversely, another 50 year old who needs $40,000 to live on, with $400,000 saved and putting away $10,000 has more of a need to try to beat the market.

A big thing I focus on is trying to avoid the full brunt of down a lot. When this is done successfully it does a couple of different things. It reduces the chance for succumbing to emotion with panic selling and it also can reduce the consequence of having to pay for an emergency at a bad time in the market cycle. Obviously trying to avoid down a lot is an active approach. This is a value that anyone can add with proper research.

Getting what is right for you boils down to proper asset allocation and a correct assessment of volatility tolerance. Anyone can do this themselves or with the help of some type of planner. Of course this can also be done incorrectly either by a do-it-yourselfer or by some type of planner.

Tonight ESPN will be showing a two hour documentary called The Lost Son of Havana after the Red Sox Tigers game about Luis Tiant's trip home to Cuba a couple of years ago.

12 comments:

Anonymous said...

no approach or method of investing can always be the single best way

This is simply not true. The problem is that we can never know what the single best way is in advance.

As you say, the rest is about improving your odds. For you, you concentrate on protecting against the downside. Fair enough.

Good or bad? Don't know, but at least people will know what they're getting with you.

Anonymous said...

If we are not trying to beat the market, then why not just buy the S&P, wilshire, or world index ETF? Of course you would need to set aside cash for emergencies. But if I can't beat the market I need a better way to spend my time and simply become a passive investor.

Roger Nusbaum said...

some obviously should be passive but that means going along with the market when it cuts in half, further are you the guy who only needs $20000?

Lastly your comment ignores risk adjsuted returns; capturing 80% of the upside, 40% of the downside as one example. This concept is important to some but not others.

Anonymous said...

"Lastly your comment ignores risk adjsuted returns; capturing 80% of the upside, 40% of the downside as one example. This concept is important to some but not others."

Now you are not being clear. The above statement indicates you would beat the market. Now I say this is a worthwhile effort.

But your original thesis was it was a worthwhile pursuit even if we lagged the market.

I need as much as I can get my hands on. while I think we could live on 75k a year I would much prefer 175k a year and enjoy traveling.

Roger Nusbaum said...

The original comment in the post is to ask whether beating the market is the correct objective. some people need to try and some do not. 80/40 was just an example.

RW said...

We seem to come back to this issue from time to time but some basic math is all that is needed to illustrate Roger's point.

From http://tinyurl.com/yn7swl

"Many "rowing" strategies, including hedge funds, are criticized for not getting much return during market declines and then not being able to beat the stock market on the upside. The answer: if an investor can avoid the losses, it takes only 30% of the positive gains to match the market. And, if losses are contained to 50% of the market drop, it takes only 64% of the gains to achieve market returns. So the main objective of "rowing" is to avoid the losses...and the gains will seem to take care of themselves." e.g., http://tinyurl.com/mwls6y

This is why capital preservation is the first and the last rule of risk-adjusted investing with individual choices regarding money management and the need for a given capital gain coming in between; e.g., risk cannot be avoided completely if gains are to be made but immutable calculation dictates a 67% gain is required to recover from a 40% loss while a 20% loss only requires a 25% gain -- both wind up in exactly the same place but the latter is easier to do and more likely to prove successful over time.

Taking a risk now and then can add some alpha but it should not be the preponderate strategy IMHO; e.g., went short real estate in one of my tactical (trading) accounts end of Friday -- stops are tight but I'm leveraged so who the hades knows. So far so good.

Matthew said...

I would like to respond to the 5:31am comment because it gets to the heart of the theory Roger brought up today. Anonymous says that Roger is wrong in saying that no investing approach can always be the single best.

It is true that at the end of a time period there will have been a best basic strategy in terms of absolute and risk-adjusted returns. But a static allocation among the strategies would have matched or beaten the best single strategy. Further tactically re-weighting amongst investment strategies would have beaten the static allocation.

As one example this page has a plot showing value and momentum strategies separately and combined 50/50. http://www.cxoadvisory.com/blog/external/blog3-27-09/

Anonymous said...

"Although the unemployment rate typically continues to rise following the end of recession, during the expected recovery the unemployment rate is forecasted to rise higher and for a longer period of time than is typical."

Above from Bill Hesters new piece at Hussman funds

Anonymous said...

Roger,
great post. Everyone is trying to benchmark s&p and capture something. I too sometimes get freeky about benchmarking. However, I look at the market as the place where there are deals. I sometimes have no positions and the market is going up. However I was looking at hans from the 40's and looked at it going down. When it hit 28's I started getting iterested and moved in at 29,50. On friday I unloaded all at 36,50. That is 23% profit. Now I have a small position in MCO and waiting to lockin a profit. I may get in if I think there is a buy out. In this manner I can outperform the market and if I am not I am not doing my job. The thing that got me sidetracted is when I start listening to the "PRO". Now I have a system that as I am going along I am relizing that it is better than the "PRO" profecies. Roger, EMS telles me that anything can work perhaps better the the "PRO". Back in june-july down move there where many that where predicting that the market was going to zero. Hussman, Rizholt and many others. I heard this guy on internet radio that was charging so much to tell the clients what hussman and most where saying on the internet that "THIS MONDAY WE ARE GOING TO SEE BLOD". Well Roger never happened. Actually I looked at CAT at 30 as good deal. Never pulled the trigger because even thought I was not in bearish camp I was a little scared. But I new we where going higher and lot higher. As steinheart saied, "If you are alone in the camp, that means that you are in the correct camp". So Roger I missed the 50%+ of the Cat deal but picked up the 23% hans deal. It is those combination, timing and value that will make you perform the market. And thanks to this blog I am getting better because of some rudamentry software that I have installed that gives me better info than the "PRO". I just need to rely on it more and not look at the "PRO". I know there will be more deals to come so I stay liquid. I have not has a loosing trade since 2008 and My trades are only at most two weeks. So the risk is very low the profits are ok(10%, 15% 20%). When that accumulates and compound, well. Sometimes the program spits out some names that I do not believe, yet there was 10 to 20%. I agree the market gives you these bargains to act on. I watched tomtom from 65 to down to 3 and picked it up in the 5's and sold it in the low 8's. I told my wife that I should look for a programmer since I anly look at a limited numer of stocks and doing in excel is not the most efficient way. I am on vacation but my wife wants to try day trading and keeps on making the same mistakes. I keep on telling her that one must reduce risk. That is the name of the game for day trading. So got me to open the netbook and try to help her.
Best,
Jeff from Milan, Italy

Tom K said...

I just have to share this one from Ned Davis:

A rich texan had an inferiority complex because he felt he wasn't very bright. He found a doctor who did brain transplants and got these options:

Lawyer brains: $5 an ounce
Doctor brains: $10 an ounce
Stock market guru brains: $250 an ounce.

The texan asked why the guru brains were so expensive and the doctor replied "do you have any idea how many gurus it takes to get an ounce of brains?"

RW said...

[lol] Should cure the Texan of his inferiority complex too (Dunning-Kruger effect is handy that way).

Reminds me of the story about the fellow who sent out 6000 messages to an investors' list, half the messages asserting "the market will go up tomorrow" and the other half "the market will go down tomorrow."

The market went up so he threw out the names who had received "the market will go down" message and sent messages to the 3,000 remaining names, half asserting "the market will go up tomorrow" and the other half "down."

The market went down so he threw out the names receiving the market up message and repeated the operation with the remaining 1,500 names.

The market went down again so he culled the list one more time and sent a final message to the remaining 750 names who had received the three consecutive, "accurate" market calls: "To find out what the market will do tomorrow, send $100 to this address."

Rather than run the scam again the fellow used the money to start a newsletter, figuring, if I can get that many calls right I must be pretty good.

Mike C said...

Back in june-july down move there where many that where predicting that the market was going to zero. Hussman, Rizholt and many others. I heard this guy on internet radio that was charging so much to tell the clients what hussman and most where saying on the internet that "THIS MONDAY WE ARE GOING TO SEE BLOD".

OK, sorry, but I gotta call BS here.

You seem like a sharp guy, but I'm not sure why you are so prone to hyperbole that basically crosses into attributing stuff to people they never said.

You give me the link with the exact quotes where Hussman and "Rizholt" said the market was going to zero, or that we were going to see "BLOD" (blood?).

This is nonsense, pure and simple.

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