About 2/3 of the way through he says;
So, if someone put a gun to my head and said, "I've got to buy stocks. What should I buy?" I'd say, "Buy two units of the Coca-Colas. They're the cheapest group in— in the equity world. Buttress it with a fairly large dose of emerging markets. They're a little overpriced. But, they've got potential. And— a lot more cash than normal for opportunities should the bubble blow up.
He says he isn't specifically recommending Coca Cola (or Johnson & Johnson which is a client holding and a name he has mentioned elsewhere) but he likes this sort of blue chip dividend stock. His comments on emerging markets are a little contradictory in that he lays out a case for the move to continue for a while and he makes the comment above as well but he also notes that they have already started to sell and are now at a modest underweight. The reason for this is that the stocks are no longer cheap and GMO is a strict value shop.
If you stick with a strict value strategy of some sort then you need to always stick with it but you can do this and still believe a theme has legs even if it is not "cheap." If one wanted to take Grantham's advice literally there are of course ways to do it with individual stocks, ETFs or a combo of both.
In thinking about blue chips in the context he means he obviously named KO and in past posts he's mentioned JNJ. To that we could probably add some other staples stocks like tobacco companies and consumer product makers as individual stocks. Finding a half dozen names like this, mature, low beta dividend payers to build one (out of three per Grantham) tranche of the portfolio would not be difficult.
Of course instead of a handful of names like the above this portion could possibly go into something like the SPDR S&P Dividend ETF (SDY) or the iShares DJ Select Dividend Fund (DVY) which a couple of clients own. The trailing yields are 3.26% and 3.73% respectively. An important point of understanding is that these funds have gone through some serious upheaval as a result of the financial crisis. DVY used to be more than 40% financials and now is just 12% in that sector and while I am not certain how much of SDY used to be in financials (I've never held that one for clients) I believe the number was similar and now that fund has 10.5% in financials. Both funds now are heaviest in utilities followed by staples. Where there was upheaval in the past, there could be in the future.
As I think about picking between a handful of blue chips and one of the dividend funds while being true to Grantham's idea I believe I'd rather pick a few stocks. In the context I think we are working under it seems like five or six stocks would result in fewer moving parts than the variables that might impact a dividend ETF. Again the idea is staying true to what Grantham appears to be talking about.
Grantham refers frequently to the other tranche as emerging markets which is a term I think has lost meaning. In picking countries I think the euro should be avoided (one exception would be Finland) along with Japan with a minimal weighting (if any) to the UK. From there countries need to be selected by merit with an understanding of the volatility characteristics of any countries selected.
For this tranche I think picking ETFs is much easier to do in terms of capturing the effect that Grantham is talking about. This can be done with country funds, thematic funds (which includes sector funds) or a combo of the two. There are now dozens of country and regional funds, plenty of theme funds with the desired country exposure and of course sector funds for Brazil and China and we should expect more specialized funds to come out of the pipeline.
While the funds certainly make for easy access I do not think they allow for shortcuts in the analytical process. Anyone buying the iShares South Africa ETF (EZA), for example, needs to understand the dynamics of the country, both past and current, and should have at least an inkling of what is going on at MTN Group which weighs in at 11% of the fund and Sasol (SSL) at 9.5% of the fund.
I stumbled across the stock in some random article, then saw it is a midsize component in the ETF for its country. It is a real company with an English website and annual report with a long track record of profitability. Three percent allocated to this stock may or may not work out as a good hold but it won't wipe anyone out--the key being proper allocation, a favorable disposition toward the country, belief in the company's numbers, at least a decent understanding of what goes on day to day at the company and a reasonable basis to expect that the company will continue to execute.
If you spend the time I promise you that you will find interesting companies, that serve as fine proxies for their country with a better yield than you would get buying the country fund.
The third tranche of Grantham's answer was holding cash for future opportunities. The gripe that people have with cash is the low yield. Yes yields are low but if you can train yourself to think of cash as a tool at your disposal then the low yields should be less of a mental obstacle.
As a much shorter point, early in the interview Grantham makes the case for top down management essentially saying that once you get things like countries and themes correct, the stock chosen should be far less important of a decision. Far less important, yes, but not totally unimportant. In buying a big Canadian bank or a big Australian bank, for example, the vast majority of the time it probably doesn't matter which one you choose. The correlation is usually very tight and they all seem to take turns being the "best."
However in going broader and saying you just want one country where maybe the choices are more limited, then the work picking a stock can be more difficult--there are fewer stocks for Hungary than Canada for example-- and so here the argument for a stock becomes far less compelling.





8 comments:
Do you ever struggle to come with interesting blog post? (and have you apologized to Marty Whitman yet...a joke, from one of your SA post).
I've picked up so many good things from you over the years. Like using individual stocks for proxies in various countries. I went through my ETF phase without enough research and found a) too much weighting in financials or materials or whatever b) too much of the dividend gets eaten up, even with low expenses.
I use CPL for Brazil (no dividend witholding) and BCH for Chile (like 30% witholding - yikes but sometimes it's the price to be paid).
I also adopted the 2-3% position rule. Helps me sleep better at night and allow me to pick 2 different companies in same sector. Like one US oil and one non-US oil or one US drug co w/high divy and TEVA or other non-USD denominated one.
Or within industrials you can pick 3M plus Air Products or Cat or Illinois Tool or Emerson to get different business but all with 50%+ exposure to non US.
However - when you talk about avoiding the UK - do you exclude, say DEO (Diageo) and RDS.B (oil) who sell all over the world and are dividend withholding free (to US).
I do struggle with how much cash to hold - you are being generous when you say low yield - it's next to nothing.
Shout to TS - thanks for the good preferred ideas in your blog and on SA.
Jeff - if you are reading: how are things in Italy? Have not seen any riots on the news over here. Is your country adopting "austerity" begrudingly or...?
we are minimally exposed to UK with just DEO. five years ago we had a lot more UK with DEO, BP and BCS. Sold BP first, then BCS in December of 2007 and have kept DEO through out. Sometimes it does very well, sometimes not but yields a lot and is a good company IMO.
Good post...for U.S. dividends we like DTN, Wisdom Tree Dividend ex-Financial ETF. Agree the financials could blow up again and this provides protection from that scenario.
Purewater, I was trying to convey that with the dividend ETFs and another blowup--it could come from elsewhere not financials. If treasury rates go up a lot then utilities will get hit hard and DVY and SDY will also get hit hard for their huge weighting in that sector. probably not as bad as when they were 40% financials but still...
Roger, a quick question although I'm not sure if the answer can be;
You said (previously proved correctly) that when a sector becomes too large, as a percentage of the index, this rings alarm bells. What about if a sector becomes unusually small? What - if any - percentage would you consider in an index to take greater interest in potential upside?
Also, as an extension, when could a country be considered cheap? Do you compare its GDP, as a percentage of global, with its stock market value, rather than just p/e?
re sector weightings; i've mentioned before that I don't expect to the gift of a sector going beyond 20% anytime soon. too small might not be as useful as too small relative to what is normal. if energy went to 7% from the current 11% that might make for a sign to increase exposure.
as far as cheap countries i have tended to take action after big moves, price wise, as opposed to deciding based on PE. I've disclosed selling pieces of STO two times since this site started (may 2006 and May 2008) when the stock was in the low $40s and then buying STO in the mid teens into what seemed like panic. with countries i care more about their attributes and what i think can happen going forward not so much the PE.
gotta go to the firestation for a little while, back later this morning.
You said, "There are a couple of things I wanted to hone in on".
FYI: that should be "home in on", not "hone in on". Very common mistake, just thought I'd let you know.
-aagold
I think you have two legit categories of dividend investor: those interested in yield for tax planning, and those interested in dividend growth as method for selecting quality companies.
For quality, there are some dividend ETFs that choose growth based on a longer time frame, like the one from Vanguard symbol VIG. It didn't own as many banks as funds like DVY and didn't draw down as much as the S&P 500 in late '08. At present, it holds the stocks Grantham recommended in its top 10 and almost no utilities.
I follow the point about selecting individual stocks, but suggest the broad funds are not all bad either.
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